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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Phil</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 18:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Hey Denny, are you done posting?  What&#039;s up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Denny, are you done posting?  What&#8217;s up?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Myrna</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-126</guid>
		<description>I learned of a very interesting event.  An accomplished young Christian women became addicted to prescription medications and found herself fighting a battle to become free of drug addictions. She had been making over $100,000.00 a year, but found herself penniless. She had, voluntarily, tried more than one rehab program, but continued to fall to the addiction.  She entered a program with Teen Challenge (she is about 30 years old) where the primary focus of treatment was to have repeated to her how much Jesus loves her, over and over again, day after day.  Leaving the program, she had a new understanding of the love of Christ for her, even though she grew up in a really cool, loving Christian family and church.  She came to some deeper understanding of Love, one that healed her, and sent her in a new direction.

I think, that I observe, in the Christian community in general, that we realize very little of Christ&#039;s love for us.  I think I am correct in noting that a prominent Christian author, from Britain, says that the Church in America is fixated on sin and forgiveness.  I think he is right.  What would change if we could meditate on His love for us, above all other doctrines and issues?  I think we focus on the Isaiah picture: falling on our faces before a Holy God, paralyzed because we know our uncleanness. Or maybe we picture other people falling on their faces. Instead, knowing that Christ has completely paid for our sin problem, we need to feed ourselves with the words of people who have understood His love for us, better than we/I have understood it.

So, as one form of remedy for this, I would like to recommend a book that I found.  While looking for books by Rob Bell, I found this one, by James Stuart Bell, printed in the U. S. in 2005. The title is; From the Library of C. S. Lewis, Selections from Writers Who Influenced His Spiritual Journey.  In this book, there are many writings about God&#039;s Love. If you find yourself identifying with me in wanting to pursue a better understanding of God&#039;s love, may we be, together, His church, &quot;spiritually delighted&quot; .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I learned of a very interesting event.  An accomplished young Christian women became addicted to prescription medications and found herself fighting a battle to become free of drug addictions. She had been making over $100,000.00 a year, but found herself penniless. She had, voluntarily, tried more than one rehab program, but continued to fall to the addiction.  She entered a program with Teen Challenge (she is about 30 years old) where the primary focus of treatment was to have repeated to her how much Jesus loves her, over and over again, day after day.  Leaving the program, she had a new understanding of the love of Christ for her, even though she grew up in a really cool, loving Christian family and church.  She came to some deeper understanding of Love, one that healed her, and sent her in a new direction.</p>
<p>I think, that I observe, in the Christian community in general, that we realize very little of Christ&#8217;s love for us.  I think I am correct in noting that a prominent Christian author, from Britain, says that the Church in America is fixated on sin and forgiveness.  I think he is right.  What would change if we could meditate on His love for us, above all other doctrines and issues?  I think we focus on the Isaiah picture: falling on our faces before a Holy God, paralyzed because we know our uncleanness. Or maybe we picture other people falling on their faces. Instead, knowing that Christ has completely paid for our sin problem, we need to feed ourselves with the words of people who have understood His love for us, better than we/I have understood it.</p>
<p>So, as one form of remedy for this, I would like to recommend a book that I found.  While looking for books by Rob Bell, I found this one, by James Stuart Bell, printed in the U. S. in 2005. The title is; From the Library of C. S. Lewis, Selections from Writers Who Influenced His Spiritual Journey.  In this book, there are many writings about God&#8217;s Love. If you find yourself identifying with me in wanting to pursue a better understanding of God&#8217;s love, may we be, together, His church, &#8220;spiritually delighted&#8221; .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Joel Cropsey</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Cropsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-125</guid>
		<description>That is a good question Myrna. I wonder what Jesus Himself would say.
He was asked a similar question in Luke 13. As usual He answered a question with a question. Do bad things happen to people because they are worse than others? Obviously not. Enron hurt many people, and for the most part, the people who lost the most were the least responsible. Therefore the question is not &quot;why do these things happen so often?&quot; but &quot;why don&#039;t they happen more often?&quot;
The fact is, we are all sinners who deserve Hell. Every breath that any one of us takes is only by God&#039;s grace. To ask why something bad happened to someone else is missing the point. The point is God is gracious enough to give me another chance with every breath I breathe.
It is natural to question God, I am sure most people do it often, but it reveals that we are ignorant, not that He is not good. It is impossible for us as limited people to understand God, Who is limitless, just as it is impossible for something created to comprehend its Creator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a good question Myrna. I wonder what Jesus Himself would say.<br />
He was asked a similar question in Luke 13. As usual He answered a question with a question. Do bad things happen to people because they are worse than others? Obviously not. Enron hurt many people, and for the most part, the people who lost the most were the least responsible. Therefore the question is not &#8220;why do these things happen so often?&#8221; but &#8220;why don&#8217;t they happen more often?&#8221;<br />
The fact is, we are all sinners who deserve Hell. Every breath that any one of us takes is only by God&#8217;s grace. To ask why something bad happened to someone else is missing the point. The point is God is gracious enough to give me another chance with every breath I breathe.<br />
It is natural to question God, I am sure most people do it often, but it reveals that we are ignorant, not that He is not good. It is impossible for us as limited people to understand God, Who is limitless, just as it is impossible for something created to comprehend its Creator.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Myrna</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-124</guid>
		<description>I meant by ugly questions, the ones like: if God is just and good, then why did a toddler get molested, or a Tsunami wipe out a village, or the elderly come to the days where they just wait to die because of suffering. The ugly questions are the ones hardest to deal with, but when people are allowed to ask  the ugly questions, sometimes people come to faith in the God whom they thought was an unfair bully. I called them ugly because these are questions we ask ourselves when circumstance prompts, but even we (believers) don&#039;t like the challenge they represent; its a hard part for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant by ugly questions, the ones like: if God is just and good, then why did a toddler get molested, or a Tsunami wipe out a village, or the elderly come to the days where they just wait to die because of suffering. The ugly questions are the ones hardest to deal with, but when people are allowed to ask  the ugly questions, sometimes people come to faith in the God whom they thought was an unfair bully. I called them ugly because these are questions we ask ourselves when circumstance prompts, but even we (believers) don&#8217;t like the challenge they represent; its a hard part for us.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Myrna</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-123</guid>
		<description>The only words that are not needed to be used to describe truth are proof and logic. These are used, but do not &quot;clinch the deal.&quot; Many people saw, first hand, the proofs of the miracles of Jesus, but did not put faith in him. Many put faith in him who had not yet met him, or experienced his miraculous powers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only words that are not needed to be used to describe truth are proof and logic. These are used, but do not &#8220;clinch the deal.&#8221; Many people saw, first hand, the proofs of the miracles of Jesus, but did not put faith in him. Many put faith in him who had not yet met him, or experienced his miraculous powers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Myrna</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-122</guid>
		<description>correction: . . . how daily life works, which are not explained . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction: . . . how daily life works, which are not explained . . .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Myrna</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Myrna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 15:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-121</guid>
		<description>The word &#039;truth&#039; gets used in many subjective ways. I think when Jesus said of himself, &quot;I am the truth, . . . ,&quot; we know that his hearers knew by faith and experience, that what he said was  true. We might say, today, that faith and experience are postmodern ways of &quot;knowing&quot;. The modernist would include  with these some element of being correct or logically provable, too. Then if you have read anything about non- western cultures meeting Jesus, they find that he is the overarching truth in their understanding of how daily life works, which are explained with traditional modern or postmodern terms. For example; that evil spirit that is the danger of being attacked by a wild animal, is now under the divine rule of Jesus; so fear is replaced with faith in him and a lot of celebrating.

I find the more I get to know about the postmodern realm of thinking, when it comes to Christians it is still a life of faith  that is demonstrated, a common element of all ages. Other world views are maintained by people who have put their faith in the conceptions they have been exposed to.  Christians  can recognize that non-Christians can logically have the faith they do, because of their understanding of their experiences. So, the only thing that makes us different from anyone else, is that we believe God gave us a gift of knowledge and experience that has brought us to faith in Jesus Christ. Is it even possible to talk about truth without all these words: knowledge, experience, belief, and faith?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The word &#8216;truth&#8217; gets used in many subjective ways. I think when Jesus said of himself, &#8220;I am the truth, . . . ,&#8221; we know that his hearers knew by faith and experience, that what he said was  true. We might say, today, that faith and experience are postmodern ways of &#8220;knowing&#8221;. The modernist would include  with these some element of being correct or logically provable, too. Then if you have read anything about non- western cultures meeting Jesus, they find that he is the overarching truth in their understanding of how daily life works, which are explained with traditional modern or postmodern terms. For example; that evil spirit that is the danger of being attacked by a wild animal, is now under the divine rule of Jesus; so fear is replaced with faith in him and a lot of celebrating.</p>
<p>I find the more I get to know about the postmodern realm of thinking, when it comes to Christians it is still a life of faith  that is demonstrated, a common element of all ages. Other world views are maintained by people who have put their faith in the conceptions they have been exposed to.  Christians  can recognize that non-Christians can logically have the faith they do, because of their understanding of their experiences. So, the only thing that makes us different from anyone else, is that we believe God gave us a gift of knowledge and experience that has brought us to faith in Jesus Christ. Is it even possible to talk about truth without all these words: knowledge, experience, belief, and faith?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Denny Duchene</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Denny Duchene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-120</guid>
		<description>This is a good line of discussion.  I tend to agree with &quot;Soren&quot;.  The label &quot;postmodern&quot; doesn&#039;t actually describe the ideas contained therein.  It is virtually impossible to divorce ones self from all &quot;grand narratives&quot; just as it is impossible to separate from presupposition.  

At the same time, &quot;postmodernism&quot; raises a series of questions that need to be addressed, predominantly as relates to the notion of epistemology (how we know).  Just as &quot;postmodernism&quot; may be a con man&#039;s shell game, so one could argue that modernism was a blind man&#039;s crutch.  In our effort to find certitude, we decided to practice a sort of pseudo-intellectualism that results in the illusion of certainty without actually offering much beyond false security. The problem with such crutches is that they don&#039;t provide sight to the blind, only a fake leg to stand on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a good line of discussion.  I tend to agree with &#8220;Soren&#8221;.  The label &#8220;postmodern&#8221; doesn&#8217;t actually describe the ideas contained therein.  It is virtually impossible to divorce ones self from all &#8220;grand narratives&#8221; just as it is impossible to separate from presupposition.  </p>
<p>At the same time, &#8220;postmodernism&#8221; raises a series of questions that need to be addressed, predominantly as relates to the notion of epistemology (how we know).  Just as &#8220;postmodernism&#8221; may be a con man&#8217;s shell game, so one could argue that modernism was a blind man&#8217;s crutch.  In our effort to find certitude, we decided to practice a sort of pseudo-intellectualism that results in the illusion of certainty without actually offering much beyond false security. The problem with such crutches is that they don&#8217;t provide sight to the blind, only a fake leg to stand on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Soren Kierkegaard</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren Kierkegaard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 04:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Ah but postmodernism does have a grand narrative to which all must submit. That grand narrative in which all are potentially united is that there is no grand narrative -- that truth is narrative variable. It is the perfect grand narrative for multi-culturalism.

Ironically enough, this grand narrative is the same kind of one that the ancients practiced. Remember in Rome all the Gods (narratives) were allowed as long as they were willing to pinch incense to Caesar. Also remember that the Christians were executed because they insisted that Jesus is Lord. How different is that from confessing that Jesus is above all the competing narratives?  Rome was postmodern and the Gospel triumphed over it.

In short, postmodernism is a con mans shell game. Those who have labeled it hyper-modernism are closer to the truth then those who see it as somehow the opposite of modernism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah but postmodernism does have a grand narrative to which all must submit. That grand narrative in which all are potentially united is that there is no grand narrative &#8212; that truth is narrative variable. It is the perfect grand narrative for multi-culturalism.</p>
<p>Ironically enough, this grand narrative is the same kind of one that the ancients practiced. Remember in Rome all the Gods (narratives) were allowed as long as they were willing to pinch incense to Caesar. Also remember that the Christians were executed because they insisted that Jesus is Lord. How different is that from confessing that Jesus is above all the competing narratives?  Rome was postmodern and the Gospel triumphed over it.</p>
<p>In short, postmodernism is a con mans shell game. Those who have labeled it hyper-modernism are closer to the truth then those who see it as somehow the opposite of modernism.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Truth&#8230;or&#8230;um&#8230;. by Ann</title>
		<link>http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/truthorum/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 01:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mereconversation.wordpress.com/?p=10#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Hi, Myrna!  I think maybe I was a little brief on my last post.  I wasn&#039;t trying to communicate that I think there is not truth - rather that it&#039;s a grand thing, not a narrow thing.  

Here&#039;s how I think about it:  We live in a realm that is surrounded by a huge privacy fence.  There are knotholes in the fence, and when we peek through the knotholes, we get a glimpse into another world.  One guy looks through the fence and says, &quot;That place is completely peopled with clowns - curly red hair, big shoes, and all.&quot;  Someone else says, &quot;Nope...  All I can see are girls dancing around in sparkly skirts, so that&#039;s the kind of person that lives over there.&quot;  Another person is sure that the other realm isn&#039;t populated by people at all, but by stately, marching horses that seem to know exactly where they&#039;re going, and what they&#039;re doing.  What no on understands is that there is a huge parade going on in the other world.  And each person can only see a little piece of the parade through their knothole.  That&#039;s like us with truth.  It looks different from various cultures perspectives at various times in  history.  It&#039;s not that we can&#039;t see something for real.  It&#039;s that we don&#039;t see the whole thing, and we can&#039;t see it from every angle.  So what someone else sees might be just as valid as what I see.  However, there is still an over-arching truth.  There are clowns.  There are dancing girls.  There are horses.  It is a parade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Myrna!  I think maybe I was a little brief on my last post.  I wasn&#8217;t trying to communicate that I think there is not truth &#8211; rather that it&#8217;s a grand thing, not a narrow thing.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how I think about it:  We live in a realm that is surrounded by a huge privacy fence.  There are knotholes in the fence, and when we peek through the knotholes, we get a glimpse into another world.  One guy looks through the fence and says, &#8220;That place is completely peopled with clowns &#8211; curly red hair, big shoes, and all.&#8221;  Someone else says, &#8220;Nope&#8230;  All I can see are girls dancing around in sparkly skirts, so that&#8217;s the kind of person that lives over there.&#8221;  Another person is sure that the other realm isn&#8217;t populated by people at all, but by stately, marching horses that seem to know exactly where they&#8217;re going, and what they&#8217;re doing.  What no on understands is that there is a huge parade going on in the other world.  And each person can only see a little piece of the parade through their knothole.  That&#8217;s like us with truth.  It looks different from various cultures perspectives at various times in  history.  It&#8217;s not that we can&#8217;t see something for real.  It&#8217;s that we don&#8217;t see the whole thing, and we can&#8217;t see it from every angle.  So what someone else sees might be just as valid as what I see.  However, there is still an over-arching truth.  There are clowns.  There are dancing girls.  There are horses.  It is a parade.</p>
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